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I think the "two roots" he's talking about is just the two skeletons you end up with in one project when you import the json data exported from the Photoshop script.

"Import Data..." adds the skeleton from a JSON into your current project. But the skeleton data from the Photoshop script doesn't have the default animation that the New Project/New Skeleton normally has. When you go to Animate mode, you can't move or key anything. I assume this is the behavior you intentionally programmed for when there aren't any animations selected. It's just that it's not immediately obvious because the list of animations is at the bottom of the tree pane.

It's not really a bug. But I guess it's a place for a non-modal warning that says "This skeleton needs animations before you can animate anything." if you go to animate mode in a skeleton without animations. Or something. Or a prompt to create one, which might be annoying if you wanted to purposefully make an animationless skeleton.

But this does factor into the main issue I suspect with the centralized Tree UI, which is that the transparency it gives by being relatively 1:1 to the storage model/object model/json (being just a list of lists of lists of lists of what's in it) might not be working for the best interests of the animator.

It's useful as a data-centric summary for geeky types; Spine shines in its backend transparency. But I don't think a list of lists should be the go-to place for manipulation or inspection— not for image swapping. Not for keying color changes. Not for changing draw order. Not for finding bones or slots or images or animations. Maybe not even for inspecting what slots are under the currently selected bone.— It might be a function of typography or visual styling, but it's just too hard to skim or read or find or reach anything in it. And that means it scales really poorly with even moderate complexity of the skeleton.

In fact, it kinda feels like some of the big categories— the bone hierarchy, bones' child slots, the available images, the skins, the list of animations— should be in their own panels or areas, each optimized for the task involving them. And some of them should be represented in some other task-centric part of the UI. (I for one could get behind a good, solid, inspector pane or overlay widget that helps me get a read on and do stuff really quickly to my current selection)

In Setup Mode, it would certainly make sense to be able to drag an image from the list of available images into slots without having to repeatedly scroll up and down to find "where the hell is that image/slot I needed?".

And in Animate Mode, it would certainly make sense to put the list of animations (especially the currently selected animation) in a more visible, easy to reach place.

I'm not sure what the current plan is for the slot image chooser though.

I have a number suggestions for possibly small things. I'll post them later. : p

Nate thank you so much for your quick and informative comment! makes me more happy that i supported this project. also i tested my animation on cocos2dx and they seems to work really well ! (didnt do stess test but i have seen u have the leaks bugs no cocos2dx on controll and fixing it)

i didnt really get how i can edit bones, and where is that "bone/image compensation" is. i think u should add a picture sequence that explain it in the documentation, or even a dedicated video of setup mode tweaks (also all the things u talked about here that are not shown in the doc) because there is no possible way someone will magically find it if the keystrokes and process is nothing like other software we might be familiar with.

Pharan yazdı

I think the "two roots" he's talking about is just the two skeletons you end up with in one project when you import the json data exported from the Photoshop script.

"Import Data..." adds the skeleton from a JSON into your current project. But the skeleton data from the Photoshop script doesn't have the default animation that the New Project/New Skeleton normally has. When you go to Animate mode, you can't move or key anything. I assume this is the behavior you intentionally programmed for when there aren't any animations selected. It's just that it's not immediately obvious because the list of animations is at the bottom of the tree pane.

yep exactly what i mean 🙂 and its a shame since i though the PS script wil save me time, but i had to figure out how to delete the extra root and un needed roots, something there was not straight forward for the user.

again, thanks a lot of your response and for listening to the community needs and requests. keep your great work coming

:clap:

In the first quick overview video I show you how to use the compensate tools. I guess I can make an in depth version of it. I'll get to that either tonight or tomorrow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... jxU#t=472s

We'll definitely add more documentation, just wan't to get some more of the features out of the way. Much easier to do good documentation once the different features are in.

Pharan yazdı

But this does factor into the main issue I suspect with the centralized Tree UI, which is that the transparency it gives by being relatively 1:1 to the storage model/object model/json (being just a list of lists of lists of lists of what's in it) might not be working for the best interests of the animator.

Possibly. The tree is a pretty simple view of the project. At the very least it is a good fit for bones. For data that isn't hierarchical it could be represented in other ways. I think the biggest problem is people wanting to do everything in the tree. This will have you scrolling up and down and I agree is not good UX. It isn't the only way to do it though. Filters should also help a little.

Keep in mind that Spine supports multiple skeletons, so there isn't just one "Images" path, etc. It would still be possible to use something besides a tree, it just complicates things. Using multiple skeletons in a project isn't used heavily in Spine right now, but was put in because it is hard to tack on later and enables certain usage, eg building cutscenes.

In Setup Mode, it would certainly make sense to be able to drag an image from the list of available images into slots without having to repeatedly scroll up and down to find "where the hell is that image/slot I needed?".

Don't do that. :p Click an image, click Set Parent or press P, click a bone in the editor. Much easier, no scrolling!

And in Animate Mode, it would certainly make sense to put the list of animations (especially the currently selected animation) in a more visible, easy to reach place.

True. Not sure where though, without doing a large UI overhaul. FWIW, the dopesheet shows the animation name in the "overview" row at the top. If you click the name it takes you to the animation in the tree. Not quite the same as your idea, but a helpful shortcut. 🙂

I think it's less of people wanting to do everything in the tree and more the tree being the only currently visible (and currently working) way to do things.

I figured out the Set Parent thing after a while. Really helps. The missing tooltip for that button is a major bug, I think. : p

IMO though, that context-sensitive box of options and buttons on the bottom is too far from the tree items and viewport/cursor most of the time to be useful for repetitive tasks. From what I recall, you had something against right-click menus? XD Fitts's Law is why hotkeys and transform handles and right-click menus work well.

Here's three smallish changes I thought of offhand:

(1) In Animate Mode, could you make it so that when you click on a bone name or slot name in the dopesheet, it selects that item in the viewport and tree?

You can select images through the viewport in Setup Mode (with the nice outline effect when you hover);
(2) In Animate mode, could you make it so that you can (+modifier key) click on images in the viewport to select its parent slot or bone? This is just so I don't have to keep digging in the tree whenever I need to do an image swap or have a few bones that are really close together.

When I select a bone, I want to be sure I'm selecting the one I want right away. Not clicking and looking someplace else, then looking back and clicking again and looking someplace else.
(3) Is it also possible to show the bone name OR highlight the images under a bone when you (+modifier key) hover over that bone?
It's really messy to show all of the bones and bone names all the time, and the button to toggle showing and hiding bone indicators and bone names is too far to use frequently. The tree and the bone name that shows up at the bottom of the viewport is too far from the cursor to be useful in this way.

And one idea for the long run:
Apart from Local, Parent and Global axes, an awesome extra axis would be "Previous Keyframe"... which would probably be Previous Keyframe Global and Previous Keyframe Local.

I get the multiple skeletons for cutscenes, but it feels like animating cutscenes would have to be an entirely different UI arrangement. I feel like with just Setup Mode and Animate Mode, selecting an active skeleton (and its set of available images) should be from a dropdown, or a separate list somewhere.

quote="Pharan" In Animate Mode, could you make it so that when you click on a bone name or slot name in the dopesheet, it selects that item in the viewport and tree?[/quote]
The bone name collapse the group. You can currently click the item name under the bone though to both select the bone or slot and the appropriate tool. This works best with the dopesheet locked.

quote In Animate mode, could you make it so that you can (+modifier key) click on images in the viewport to select its parent slot or bone? This is just so I don't have to keep digging in the tree whenever I need to do an image swap or have a few bones that are really close together.[/quote]
https://trello.com/card/easier-bone-sel ... c0059d9/77

quote Is it also possible to show the bone name OR highlight the images under a bone when you (+modifier key) hover over that bone?[/quote]
https://trello.com/card/show-bone-name- ... c0059d9/78

And one idea for the long run:
Apart from Local, Parent and Global axes, an awesome extra axis would be "Previous Keyframe"... which would probably be Previous Keyframe Global and Previous Keyframe Local.

Implementing this would be hell. :p Getting the 3 we have just right was a huge pita. Neat feature idea though.

I get the multiple skeletons for cutscenes, but it feels like animating cutscenes would have to be an entirely different UI arrangement. I feel like with just Setup Mode and Animate Mode, selecting an active skeleton (and its set of available images) should be from a dropdown, or a separate list somewhere.

Yes, cut scenes really need an animation mixer, which is like the dopesheet but shows what animations will be played and for how long. Still, having two skeletons in the same scene does enable cutscenes, synchronized skeleton animations, and other things.

10 gün sonra

you guys are working great! i am very impressed with the activity and response on the forum and how good the actual animation turns out once you export it its working smooth and exactly like in the spine tool.
well deserve every dollar i payed for support ! 🙂 and i will recommend all my friends to purchase your product. very very robust tool (really impressed with how smooth the tool is), hope to see the UX fixes soon

Thanks bobo! 8) It's been a little quiet lately. Over the next 2 weeks I'll do some of the easier tasks, then I'm taking a short break for a honeymoon in Real Life. 🙂 Tying the knot (noose? 😉) tomorrow!

enjoy your honeymoon ! :}

Thanks! 🙂 I'm all married now, though the real honeymoon is July 2, when I take 2.5 weeks off. 🙂